Comments on FLORIDA BAPTIST WITNESS Article
http://www.gofbw.com/news.asp?ID=11572
Undertaking stewardship education for the SBC
NASHVILLE (SBT)—There’s no denying that Southern Baptists individually, corporately, and as a denomination are lagging in exercising stewardship of God’s resources. While the Great Commission Resurgence Task Force recommends shifting primary responsibility for Cooperative Program promotion and stewardship education to state conventions, chairman Ronnie Floyd is counting on local pastors to teach individual Christians to honor God through tithing.
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Comment: Right. The responsibility should have never been otherwise according to the nature and purpose of the SBC.
Wrong. True biblical holy tithes were always only food from inside God’s holy land of Israel which He had miraculously increased. Although money was common even in Genesis and essential for sanctuary worship, money was never a tithe-able item. Jesus did not qualify as a tithe-payer and neither did all who lived outside Israel.
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“Remember, the only people who ever get offended with the declaration of biblical stewardship are the ones who give little to nothing at all to your church,” Floyd stated said in the news conference that followed the release of the task force interim report Feb. 22.
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Comment: This is an outright lie! The early church flourished without a tithing doctrine by using freewill grace giving principles. From Martin Luther to our times there are many top theologians and Bible schools which flourish without teaching tithing.
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“Christians need to repent of the sin of not honoring God with at least the first -tenth of their income,” Floyd said.
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Comments: Floyd is guilty of twisting scripture. In God’s Word the firstfruits and tithes are never the same thing. Firstfruits were very small token offerings per Deu 26:1-4 and Neh 10:35-37. Tithes were tenth-fruits counted after the full harvest or from every 10th animal (whether good or bad) per Num 18:21-28 and Neh 10:37-38. The first income of a Christian should be used to buy essential medicine, food and shelter per First Timothy 5:8.
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“Can you imagine the spiritual revival that would consume our churches if God’s people would obey God in giving? Can you imagine the opportunities of advancing the Gospel regionally, nationally, and globally if God’s people would obey God in giving?”
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Comment: Can you imagine how the church would be blessed if it obeyed God’s NT post Calvary principles of giving instead of Law principles?
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Seeking to discover “how Southern Baptists can work more faithfully and effectively together in serving Christ through the Great Commission,” the task force analyzed the means of funding that effort and reaffirmed the Cooperative Program as the preferred means of giving.
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Comment: The Great Commission brings the gospel to the Gentiles in the name of Most High God for all nations. The tithe was never used to convert OT Gentiles.
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Floyd added … encouraged pastors and churches to be unashamed in the teaching and preaching of biblical stewardship. . “Stand on the authority of the Word of God and call the people of God back to Him through the giving of the first tenth and additional offerings to your local church.”
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Comment: Again, OT tithes were never used for mission work to convert Gentiles. God commanded OT Israel NOT to intermingle with the Gentiles. In other words, POST CALVARY TITHING DOES NOT STAND ON BIBLICAL AUTHORITY. Nothing, absolutely nothing about OT tithing is followed by any church today. Numbers 18:21-28 is ignored. Pastors own and inherit property and they do not KILL those attempting to enter the sanctuary and worship God directly.
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“From the time I did my doctoral dissertation in the area of biblical stewardship until now, I have been astounded by the selfishness of God’s people,” Floyd said, recommending that every pastor preach a series of messages on biblical stewardship annually and reaffirm such principles in small group studies.
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Comment: I invite Floyd to enter into an extended in-depth dialog with me on the subject of tithing. He says he has already done the research for his doctorate.
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Tuesday, April 13, 2010
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
Reply to Change Worth Making, 3-24-10; 11AM
CWM: I will however leave you with this “cut and paste” from the minds of the leading scholars who edited and contributed to the KJV Study Bible. [Many names follow]
Russ: I will leave you with a similar list from the minds of leading scholars across the spectrum of conservative churches. In other words, a list of persons does not change the argument or God’s Word.
Craig Blomberg, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, F. F. Bruce, Lewis Sperry Chafer; James Darby, Alfred Edersheim, Walter Elwell, Everett F. Harrison, Carl F. Henry, C. H. Lenski, Zola Levitt, John MacArthur, J. Vernon McGee, Bruce Metzger, Moody Bible Institute, Mike Oppenheimer, Dwight Pentecost, Charles Ryrie, C. I. Scofield, Ray Steadman, Charles Swindoll, Merrill Unger, John Wesley, Spiros Zodhiates. Note: Dr. James Kennedy is more in agreement with our position than he is against it.
CWM: “Tithing is the practice of giving 10 percent of one’s income to the Lord. It is called “storehouse tithing” by some who require that the tithe be given the Lord through the local church.
Russ: We are more than eager to engage any of these scholars in an extended dialog. Yet they are the ones who evade open discussion. You are a wonderful exception to the rule and I highly commend you for staying with us this long. Thank you.
The definition from my book: The fourth definition of “tithe” is the precise and narrow Scriptural definition as given in the Mosaic Law in the Old Covenant. The biblical tithe was an ordinance of the Mosaic Law for the use and benefit of national Israel under the Old Covenant. The full tithe was given to the tribe of Levi, first, in exchange for his loss of land inheritance in Israel and, second, because of his servant service to his brothers in the Levitical house of Aaron who alone served as priests. A tenth of the first tithe was, in turn, given by the Levites to the priests who ministered at the altar.
The basic tithe was not to be used for building houses of worship. Since pagan dust defiled, the original tithe consisted solely of the increase of land produce from God’s sanctified land of Israel and from the increase of animals herded on the land of Israel. Although the tithe could be exchanged for its monetary value, the tithe itself never consisted of money! A second (and third) tithe was also given to provide food for festival occasions, and to provide welfare food for widows, fatherless, orphans and needy strangers in Israel.
CWM: While some Christians disagree, the principle of “God’s place” for worship is the basis for storehouse tithing (Deut. 12).
Russ: Deut 12:1 begins a discussion of “statutes and judgments” which national Israel shall obey “in the land.” They only applied to Old Covenant Israel and only inside the land. Read 12:1.
Deut 12:6-7 is a discussion of the second festival tithe which was to be eaten in the streets of Jerusalem. It was not taken to the Temple.
CWM: The temple in the Old Testament (1) was the central place characterized by God’s presence; (2) possessed the symbols of redemption; and
Russ: The “place” of Deuteronomy 12 was the “streets” of Jerusalem, not the Temple. Nehemiah 10:37b-38 is totally ignored when discussing Malachi 3:10. The two small storerooms inside the Temple could not possibly hold the tithe of the nation which was required in the Levitical cities where 98% of those who needed it for food lived.
CWM: (3) was where the man of God served.
Russ: They served in 24 courses and each course normally served one week out of 24 (twice a year). According to 1 Chronicles 23 to 26 they were not full-time temple workers; they were also political government employees working for the king. That is ignored today.
CWM: In the New Testament, these three attributes characterize the local church.
Russ: The word “church” is an assembly of believers. The church “building” did not exist for over 200 years after Calvary and was not legal for over 300 years. Comparing the OT Temple to the NT “Church” is not biblical.
CWM: Hence, the principle of storehouse tithing continues into the church age.
Russ: If that is true, then why did it take Southern Baptists over 300 years (649-1963) to even include the texts for tithing in its statement of faith? Why did the 1925 Faith and Message not include any tithing texts? Why was tithing only first presented to the Convention in 1895 (to be rejected)?
CWM: Liberty University.
Russ: The head of the Religion Dept at Liberty and other SBC theologians recently endorsed Dr. David Croteau’s book (also from Liberty) You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?
CWM: It is apparent that this particular group of scholars, side with the “principle” of giving 10% thru the local church. I would dare say these men are ill-motivated, or uneducated, or unable to rightly divide the truth.
Russ: And they run away from dialog. If they thought their doctrine were so strong they would eagerly defend it.
CWM: We’ll pick up this issue again, later on . . . God Bless
Russ: I certainly hope so. You can bring some friends with you also. God bless.
Russell Earl Kelly, PHD
Russ: I will leave you with a similar list from the minds of leading scholars across the spectrum of conservative churches. In other words, a list of persons does not change the argument or God’s Word.
Craig Blomberg, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, F. F. Bruce, Lewis Sperry Chafer; James Darby, Alfred Edersheim, Walter Elwell, Everett F. Harrison, Carl F. Henry, C. H. Lenski, Zola Levitt, John MacArthur, J. Vernon McGee, Bruce Metzger, Moody Bible Institute, Mike Oppenheimer, Dwight Pentecost, Charles Ryrie, C. I. Scofield, Ray Steadman, Charles Swindoll, Merrill Unger, John Wesley, Spiros Zodhiates. Note: Dr. James Kennedy is more in agreement with our position than he is against it.
CWM: “Tithing is the practice of giving 10 percent of one’s income to the Lord. It is called “storehouse tithing” by some who require that the tithe be given the Lord through the local church.
Russ: We are more than eager to engage any of these scholars in an extended dialog. Yet they are the ones who evade open discussion. You are a wonderful exception to the rule and I highly commend you for staying with us this long. Thank you.
The definition from my book: The fourth definition of “tithe” is the precise and narrow Scriptural definition as given in the Mosaic Law in the Old Covenant. The biblical tithe was an ordinance of the Mosaic Law for the use and benefit of national Israel under the Old Covenant. The full tithe was given to the tribe of Levi, first, in exchange for his loss of land inheritance in Israel and, second, because of his servant service to his brothers in the Levitical house of Aaron who alone served as priests. A tenth of the first tithe was, in turn, given by the Levites to the priests who ministered at the altar.
The basic tithe was not to be used for building houses of worship. Since pagan dust defiled, the original tithe consisted solely of the increase of land produce from God’s sanctified land of Israel and from the increase of animals herded on the land of Israel. Although the tithe could be exchanged for its monetary value, the tithe itself never consisted of money! A second (and third) tithe was also given to provide food for festival occasions, and to provide welfare food for widows, fatherless, orphans and needy strangers in Israel.
CWM: While some Christians disagree, the principle of “God’s place” for worship is the basis for storehouse tithing (Deut. 12).
Russ: Deut 12:1 begins a discussion of “statutes and judgments” which national Israel shall obey “in the land.” They only applied to Old Covenant Israel and only inside the land. Read 12:1.
Deut 12:6-7 is a discussion of the second festival tithe which was to be eaten in the streets of Jerusalem. It was not taken to the Temple.
CWM: The temple in the Old Testament (1) was the central place characterized by God’s presence; (2) possessed the symbols of redemption; and
Russ: The “place” of Deuteronomy 12 was the “streets” of Jerusalem, not the Temple. Nehemiah 10:37b-38 is totally ignored when discussing Malachi 3:10. The two small storerooms inside the Temple could not possibly hold the tithe of the nation which was required in the Levitical cities where 98% of those who needed it for food lived.
CWM: (3) was where the man of God served.
Russ: They served in 24 courses and each course normally served one week out of 24 (twice a year). According to 1 Chronicles 23 to 26 they were not full-time temple workers; they were also political government employees working for the king. That is ignored today.
CWM: In the New Testament, these three attributes characterize the local church.
Russ: The word “church” is an assembly of believers. The church “building” did not exist for over 200 years after Calvary and was not legal for over 300 years. Comparing the OT Temple to the NT “Church” is not biblical.
CWM: Hence, the principle of storehouse tithing continues into the church age.
Russ: If that is true, then why did it take Southern Baptists over 300 years (649-1963) to even include the texts for tithing in its statement of faith? Why did the 1925 Faith and Message not include any tithing texts? Why was tithing only first presented to the Convention in 1895 (to be rejected)?
CWM: Liberty University.
Russ: The head of the Religion Dept at Liberty and other SBC theologians recently endorsed Dr. David Croteau’s book (also from Liberty) You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?
CWM: It is apparent that this particular group of scholars, side with the “principle” of giving 10% thru the local church. I would dare say these men are ill-motivated, or uneducated, or unable to rightly divide the truth.
Russ: And they run away from dialog. If they thought their doctrine were so strong they would eagerly defend it.
CWM: We’ll pick up this issue again, later on . . . God Bless
Russ: I certainly hope so. You can bring some friends with you also. God bless.
Russell Earl Kelly, PHD
Friday, March 5, 2010
1633-1833 NO TITHING TAUGHT
"During the nearly two centuries (1633-1833) while religion was understood by early Euro-Americans as a public good deserving public support a variety of means to finance religion evolved, much as a hodgepodge of user fees, licenses and taxes is used to this day to pay for public goods. ... In the case of religion there were poll and property taxes which could be quite high. As late as 1838 Connecticut congregations were taxing their members nearly 0.26 property value each year ... Massachusetts taxed pew holders. Annual poll and head taxes were used ... Some churches used pledges." In Pursuit of the Almighty’s Dollar, James Hudnut-Beumler, 2007, Vanderbilt University, page 9.
Friday, February 26, 2010
1644 London Baptist Confession: Self-Supporting Pastors
1644 London Baptist Confession
XXXVII. That the Ministers aforesaid, lawfully called by the Church, where they are to administer, OUGHT TO CONTINUE IN THEIR CALLING, according to God's ordinance, and carefully to feed the flock of Christ committed to them, nor for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind. Heb. 5:4; Acts 4:23; 1 Tim. 4:14; John 10:3, 4; Acts 20:28; Rom. 12:7, 8; Heb. 13:7, 17
XXXVIII. That the DUE MAINTENANCE of the officers aforesaid, SHOULD BE THE FREE AND VOLUNTARY COMMUNICATION of the Church, that according to Christ's ordinance, they that preach the Gospel, should live on the Gospel and NOT by constraint to be COMPELLED FROM THE PEOPLE BY A FORCED LAW. 1Cor. 9:7,14; Gal. 6:6; 1 Thes. 5:13; 1 Tim. 5:17-18; Phil. 4:15-16
[NOTE: NO TITHING TEXTS ARE LISTED!]
XXXVII. That the Ministers aforesaid, lawfully called by the Church, where they are to administer, OUGHT TO CONTINUE IN THEIR CALLING, according to God's ordinance, and carefully to feed the flock of Christ committed to them, nor for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind. Heb. 5:4; Acts 4:23; 1 Tim. 4:14; John 10:3, 4; Acts 20:28; Rom. 12:7, 8; Heb. 13:7, 17
XXXVIII. That the DUE MAINTENANCE of the officers aforesaid, SHOULD BE THE FREE AND VOLUNTARY COMMUNICATION of the Church, that according to Christ's ordinance, they that preach the Gospel, should live on the Gospel and NOT by constraint to be COMPELLED FROM THE PEOPLE BY A FORCED LAW. 1Cor. 9:7,14; Gal. 6:6; 1 Thes. 5:13; 1 Tim. 5:17-18; Phil. 4:15-16
[NOTE: NO TITHING TEXTS ARE LISTED!]
Thursday, February 25, 2010
Doctor Johnny Hunt's Doctorate is Honorary
According to the following article on the SBC web site "Doctor" Johnny Hunt has an earned B. A. in Religion from Gardner-Webb in 1979 and an earned M. Div. from SEBTS in 1981. How did he get a M.Div in two years?
http://www.sbc.net/PresidentsPage/JohnnyHunt/bio.asp
He has HONORARY degrees from two schools like my own which are not fully accredited:
Immanuel Baptist Theological Seminary of Sharpsburg, Georgia
Doctor of Sacred Laws and Letters from Covington Theological Seminary
Doctor of Divinity at Tennessee Temple University
This makes his own DOCTORAL credentials even less real than my own earned degree! Yet the SBC makes fun of Covington while allowing one of its own presidents like Hunt to call himself "DOCTOR" with only honorary degrees. What a sham!
And more, Jerry Vines, Charles Stanley, Walter MarTin and Spiros Zodhiates all got their degrees from schools which were not accredited at the time.
How does the US government accredit a religious school? Is the theology from BYU (Mormon) and Notre Dame (Catholic) correct because they are accredited schools?
http://www.sbc.net/PresidentsPage/JohnnyHunt/bio.asp
He has HONORARY degrees from two schools like my own which are not fully accredited:
Immanuel Baptist Theological Seminary of Sharpsburg, Georgia
Doctor of Sacred Laws and Letters from Covington Theological Seminary
Doctor of Divinity at Tennessee Temple University
This makes his own DOCTORAL credentials even less real than my own earned degree! Yet the SBC makes fun of Covington while allowing one of its own presidents like Hunt to call himself "DOCTOR" with only honorary degrees. What a sham!
And more, Jerry Vines, Charles Stanley, Walter MarTin and Spiros Zodhiates all got their degrees from schools which were not accredited at the time.
How does the US government accredit a religious school? Is the theology from BYU (Mormon) and Notre Dame (Catholic) correct because they are accredited schools?
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