Reply to Pastor J D Greear on Tithing

http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=34861

Greear: Over the years I have gotten (and had myself) questions about whether or not the tithe (giving the first 10 percent of our income back to God as prescribed by the law) was biblical.

Kelly: Immediately you make the greatest error of your article. True biblical holy tithes were always only FOOD from inside God’s holy land of Israel which God had miraculously increased. While money is very common in Genesis, money is never a tithe-able item. Sixteen (16) texts validate this. Tithes could not come from what man increased, from Gentiles or from outside Israel. Jesus, Peter and Paul did not tithe and nobody can tithe today.

Greear: Tithing is a part of the law, and Jesus has definitely fulfilled it all in our place so that we are free from its bondage.

Kelly: If you stopped here you would be fine. But you then back-pedal and contradict yourself.

Greear: However, the purposes of the law were (generally speaking) 3-fold:
-- to show us what God was like.
-- to reveal how far short we fall of God's character.
-- to show us how to thrive in the creation God has placed us in.

Kelly: This is really a deceptive answer by what you omit. The Law was given as a covenant only to Israel. It was to show Old Covenant Israel that it could not achieve righteousness by obeying God’s commands. It was an object-lesson to teach ignorant slaves about God. The Law was never commanded to “us” non-Hebrews. The Law was temporary (Gal 3:19-26).

Greear: None of those 3 purposes faded with the death of Jesus.

Kelly: As you just wrote “Jesus fulfilled it all in our place so that we are free from its bondage.” It all “faded with the death of Jesus” per Hebrews 7:18; 8:13 and Romans 3:21.

Greear: If anything, Jesus' coming intensified them.

Kelly: You have changed your focus away from God’s Law and to your invented “3 purposes.” This is sneaky. God’s Law was an indivisible whole of Ten Commandments, ceremonial statutes and civil judgments. From the texts quoted in Matthew 5:19-48 all the whole law was fulfilled at Calvary. You word-shuffle is trying to both end all of the law and keep all of the law at the same time.

Greear: We saw more of what God was like, what holiness was like, and what a man acting in perfect harmony with creation was like.

Kelly: And what do we do with the hundreds of laws which were not specifically repealed in the New Covenant after Calvary? Are our women to leave the camp one week per month? Are we to travel to Jerusalem three times a year? Are we not to harvest crops every seventh year? You are playing with words and ignoring the mountain called the law.

Greear: As it relates to the tithe, the law reveals the unchanging character of God and how He expects us to view the money HE has provided for us.

Kelly: That part of the Law which is eternal and moral is also written in our hearts by conscience and revealed in nature. It is repeated to the Church in terms of the New Covenant after Calvary. We all know to give generously and sacrificially but tithing was a special revelation given only to Israel to support its sacrificial system. And you have provided no texts whatsoever to validate your statements.

Greear: A minimum of 10 percent that He has given to us, whether we are rich or poor, is to go back into His work.

Kelly: Pardon me, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Show me from God’s Word where tithing was a “minimum” for everybody. It was only a “minimum” for Hebrew food producers who lived inside Israel. The poor who were not food-producers were never required to tithe and actually ate much of the festival tithe and all of the third-year tithe. Why don’t you provide texts?

Greear: This is how He set up the world order. This is why the "tithe" principle (the first 10 percent of income going into God's work) is taught pre-law (Abraham)

Kelly: You may follow Abram’s pre circumcision tithe all you wish: (1) only spoils of war, (2) keep nothing, (3) give the remaining 90% to the modern equivalent to the king of Sodom (a gay community leader?). Who are you kidding?

Greear: law (Moses), post-exile (Malachi)

Kelly: This tithe of the Law was clearly only food from inside Israel as 16 texts in the law describe it. Be honest.

Greear: and even affirmed under Jesus (Matthew 23:23).

Kelly: Does your Bible not say that Jesus was discussing “matters of the law”? Was not Jesus living under the jurisdiction of the law per Gal 4:4-5? It was illegal for Jesus to command anybody to tithe to himself. Where did you learn these hermeneutics?

Greear: God's purposes for creation haven't changed.

Kelly: Creation? You are playing games with God’s Word. Shame on you. God did not command all “creation” to tithe. The church is commanded to give freely, generously, sacrificially, joyfully, not by command and motivated by love for God and others. If you cannot make that work, then you need to get out of the ministry.

Greear: We are no longer under the theocratic nation state of Israel

Kelly: “We” Gentiles never were “under the law.” You need to spend 13 years like Paul did in re-learning what the law was all about.

Greear: but how God has set up His economy for His people has not changed.

Kelly: A lot of fancy words, but no texts to validate them from God’s Word. The key is “his people.” His “people” under the Old Covenant was Israel. His “people” in this dispensation is the “assembly of believers.” God does not change his character but he certainly does change from ruling Israel under the Old Covenant and ruling the Church under the New Covenant per Hebrews 7:18 and 8:13.

Greear: God doesn't lay the financial weight of the entire world on any of our shoulders, but He has given His people a plan whereby they do their part.

Kelly: News flash: the wealthy have plenty of money for yachts and booze after tithing but the poor cannot even buy essential medicine, food and shelter after tithing. You are blatantly violating Paul’s instruction in First Timothy 5:8. News flash: tithing and firstfruits were never the same thing in God’s Word per Deu 26:1-4 and Neh 10:35-38.

Greear: The law was given to help people live in the shalom of God. That's what gives the law (principles like taking a Sabbath and the tithe) an enduring effect.

Kelly: Wrong. Do you think it is moral to own slaves? The Sabbath commandment approves it. And, if you receive tithes, you must agree not to own and inherit land per Numbers 18:21-28.

Greear: Thus, the idea that 10 percent of all that God gives to you is given for you to give back to Him remains, I believe, as a good guide to our giving.

Kelly: News flash: God owned everything in the OT also but only accepted tithes from inside His holy land of Israel. You do not and cannot give a biblical tithe today.

Greear: Now, let me be clear -- Jesus left us under NO PART of the law, not the tithe or anything else.

Kelly: Your two “no law” statements at the beginning and end of this article sandwich a whole lot of junk theology in between. Shame on you. You give something away (no law) and then grab it back again.

Greear: But the law, in that it reflects God's character and His ordering of creation, is still good, and still functions as a guide to how we are to live under God in this world.

Kelly: No, the Law is not our guide. No texts validate this. Jesus is the new standard of righteousness per John 16:8-9; 2 Cor 3:10-18; Romans 3:21 and Hebrews 1:1-2. You need to go back to school.

Like a Seventh-day Adventist, you have no idea how to consistently use the word “law.” It is not the Ten Commandments. It is usually everything from Exodus 16 to Deuteronomy. Paul used it in Romans 3 to include the Psalms and Prophets. How do you use it consistently?

Greear: Men and women of God throughout the Bible, including Abraham and Jesus, seemed to recognize that. If anything, the Gospel raises the level of our response to God's laws.

Kelly: Which laws? There are over 600 commands in the law. Am I to show myself to a priest after being healed? Am I to kill my children when they strike or curse me? Tithes could not be used to send out missionaries. Am I to follow that example? Those who received Levitical tithes were to kill anybody attempting to enter the sanctuary. Do you obey that law?

Greear: True obedience, Jesus says, goes much deeper than the behavior standards the law required. For example, the law said "don't murder," yet Jesus said the Gospel demanded we love our brother always and not hate him, not even our enemies. The law said "don't commit adultery," yet Jesus said that the Gospel demanded people not even "look on another woman with lust in our heart."

Kelly: You are deliberately dishonest here because you picked out the 2 reference to the Ten Commandments in Matthew 5:20-48 and conveniently ignored the 2 references to the ceremonial statutes and the 2 references to the civil judgments. That shows you are still confused about the law.

Greear: So, if the law says "give 10 percent," what kind of generosity does the Gospel call for? Would it not be greater generosity than 10 percent, just as the other commands were also intensified in Christ?

Kelly: You are creating a lie using two false assumptions. You falsely assume that the law commanded everybody to tithe and you falsely assume that everybody began their level of giving at 10%. Shame on you.

Greear: In other words, if the people who saw God's generosity in the Exodus responded with giving 10 percent …

Kelly: The cold hard Law commanded tithes whether or not one was in agreement or joyful. Again you are arguing from your own false presupposition.

Greear: … how much more should people who have seen the cross? This is why you see the early church giving far beyond 10 percent. So overwhelmed by the generosity of Christ, they wanted to pour out their possessions for those in need (2 Corinthians 8:9).

Kelly: Now you are teaching contrary to the Southern Baptist Press you are writing in. They teach “tithes PLUS freewill offerings” and quote 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 as instruction concerning freewill offerings –not tithes. You cannot have it both ways. What you said is true but it is not true that the early church was tithing. It was giving SACRIFICIALLY.

Greear: For Gospel-touched people, tithing should never be the ceiling of their giving, but it should be the floor.

Kelly: “It should be the floor”!!! This is an outright deliberate high-handed presumptuous willful LIE without a single Bible text for validation. And it is damming the Southern Baptist Convention to teach it.

Greear: Tithing, in and of itself, is not an iron-clad rule for Christians as it was for Israelites under the law.

Kelly: Then WHY did you just tell that tremendous lie? “For Gospel-touched people, tithing should never be the ceiling of their giving, but it should be the floor. For Gospel-touched people, tithing should never be the ceiling of their giving, but it should be the floor.”

Greear: That said, "giving our firstfruits to God" most definitely is a biblical principle, true of God's people in all places and at all times.

Kelly: News flash: tithes are “tenth-fruits” and not “first-fruits.” First-fruits were extremely small token offerings. Read some good Bible dictionaries.

Greear: And 10 percent is a great place to start with that.

Kelly: This un-validated Southern Baptist lie is repeated so much that its people think it is biblical. Some people are so poor that they cannot “start with a tithe” and still buy medicine, food and essential shelter. Thank God that you are not terribly disabled and on welfare yourself; you might change you mind otherwise.

Greear: Should I give the tithe "pre-tax" or "post-tax"?

Kelly: Neither. Nobody can tithe biblically.

Greear: In the Old Testament, God called the tithe a "firstfruit" (cf. 1 Corinthians 16:2). This meant their giving to God came first before anything else. That teaches pretty clearly that our giving to God comes before Uncle Sam takes his share. God gets the firstfruits, not the second ones.

Kelly: This “firstfruit” lie has already been exposed.

Greear: When during the month should I give? The principle of "firstfruits" also shows you, in my opinion, that the tithe check should be written first, and not at the end of the month when you see how much left over you have. If you do the latter, you will inevitably never have enough to give God 10 percent.

Kelly: This is greedy selfish theology which turns God into a monster and gives the church a bad name. Again no texts.

Greear: You're giving Him your scraps. But if you do the former, you will inevitably adjust your lifestyle around what you have left.

Kelly: You can always move into a cardboard box under the expressway after tithing when your house is re-possessed.

Greear: And, God also will find a way to multiply His blessings to you. I've seen that happen in my own life multiple times. It's pretty exciting.

Kelly: Those who tithe all their lives and remain in poverty are never asked to testify.

Greear: Should we give to the church, or other things?
In the Old Testament system, the tithe went to the work of God's institution, the temple. Caring for the poor beyond what the temple did, or funding an itinerant rabbi, etc, all came out beyond the tithe.

Kelly: Yes, there were three tithes of 23%. Why don’t you teach that?

Greear: I believe the implication is that tithing should go to God's new institution, the local church.

Kelly: Again no texts. Hebrews 7:18 says that the system which supported the Aaronic priesthood (7:5) was annulled in fulfillment of 7:12. Explain that please.

Greear: Hopefully you have a church that you feel good about how they spend their money (not all on buildings, entitlement perks for members and pastors, etc.) and you see them working in the streets and unreached parts of the world.

Kelly: Sounds good but not biblical. Tithes never paid for missions in the OT. There is no precedent to follow.

Greear. I'd say if you trust your pastor, however, you honor God by giving to the institution He ordained.

Kelly: Give as the Holy Spirit instructed the Church after Calvary.

Greear: Then, give like a Gospel-touched fool beyond that to all the things God has put in your heart.

Kelly: Give sacrificially as the Spirit convicts and even beyond your ability at times. That is not tithing.

Greear: When my wife Veronica and I first got married, we had to stretch ourselves unbelievably thin to tithe. As God has increased our income over the years, we have yearly increased the percentage of what we give. We now give way above the tithe to our church, and then beyond that to ministries blessing the poor, carrying the Gospel to the world, and some to our church's expansion project.

Kelly: The point is that you are not commanded to begin at 10%. That is not a New Covenant giving principle.

Greear: It really is more blessed to give than to receive.

Kelly: That reference is from Acts 20:35 where Paul told church elders to work to help the needy in their congregations – not the other way around.

Greear: God really has multiplied what we have given to him and given it back to us "in every way" -- financially, in joy, in perspective, etc. (2 Corinthians 8-9). We love it.

Kelly: Yes, but 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 are freewill giving principles which propelled the first century church.

Greear: J.D. Greear is lead pastor at the Summit Church in Durham, N.C. This column first appeared on his blog, JDGreear.com.

Kelly: I invite you to enter an in-depth dialog with me on tithing and share the dialog with your congregation. If you are correct, I will be exposed as in error. If you are in error, you can change and teach truth.

THREE MAIN ERRORS:
Defined tithe wrong.
Defined firstfruits wrong.
Uses the word “law” inconsistently.

Russell Earl Kelly, PHD